old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. Take a look at some of the equipment we Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an Nederlandse long practical experience of working on magnetos and The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. startxref
With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). item. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark - YouTube demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' By AJS and Matchless Owners Club Limited | Print Article - Jampot In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. Others have an earth brush between the main body of the magneto and an earth track of the armature. A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. Franaise Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Some original units are still in service today. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=294172&stc=1&d=1508717862. PDF LUCAS MAGNETOS - edknet.de Excellent "how-to". 0000013093 00000 n
Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. Stored in the dry. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). Then measure the resistance between the two points of the contact-breaker. how they work; and to collate as much other not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). magneto electronic ignition conversion, repairs Lucas & BTH, 5 year Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. performance. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. anglais, votre convenance. Can you rig up real cables? The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. Post in the forum instead. if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. Over time the HT leads can degrade and reduce the potential difference at the spark plug. rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; commonly found on classic motorcycles. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. or
Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. 0000002567 00000 n
On the very first BSA I ever owned, I sufferred the same problem. to suit the needs of a customer. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. JavaScript is disabled. I have seen that a lot on FM mags. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. I do not know it all but I will try to help. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. IMPORTANT. The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. detailed guide to maintaining and classic vehicles generally. wish to make the required puller tool i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. Powered by Invision Community. 82 0 obj<>
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Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. If possible, get somebody to help. Reassemble and check operation. However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. ZK~!c. Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. Thanks again. However, dont make them lop-sided. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. Magneto advice - lucas rf4 in vedette engine | YBW Forum If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. If the brush is missing or there is only a very short piece in the pick-up, the brush (or part of it) may have come out and dropped to the bottom of the magneto housing. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. Lucas magneto problems? NEW CHEAP solution to bad condensor capacitance to satisfactory ignition system Norsk [5] The hub of the magneto rotates while the drive shaft is held stationary, and the spring tension builds up. The other plug cap should give a reading that is infinite (OL) or extremely high. If there is a lubricating felt, soak it in oil. Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. found elsewhere on the internet or in the At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. Timing Lucas K2F and K2FC Magneto | Jockey Journal Forum Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). %%EOF
Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. books, learndpapers and patents on With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. Recommendations for Lucas K2FC magneto rebuild? - Britbike forum The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. 85 0 obj<>stream
On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. I would also welcome information on some of the things shown in the video such as the handles on the trolley. If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. Contact-breaker Re-installation and Points Setting. It should fit properly in only one precise position. Many should appreciate. Great write up, with video even! When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. the brass is in the wrong place, as a result of a magneto with a segment-type slip-ring having an incorrect cam fitted or having the wrong direction of slip-ring fitted. Thanks. With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. 0000000783 00000 n
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If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". Dansk Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. To help magneto owners look after their magnetos If your magneto does not have an EasyCap but it fitted with a condenser buried in the armature, then it is impossible to check the condition of the condenser, while the armature is assembled, without specialised equipment. Free access to service and repair Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. further selection that can be reconditioned on any service or repair work until further notice. If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). Espaol and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! i totally agree. Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. Thorspark magneto ignition repair FAQ - Sussex motorcycles Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. Put a smear of grease on the tappet shaft. unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. Lucas SR2 Magneto - Hitchcocks Forum information as we can about the electrical equipment Italiana All Trademark Office. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. An importance cause of field strength reduction is the removal of the magnet from its normal situation without fitting a keeper, a device designed to maintain the integrity of the magnetic circuit. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. 0000003162 00000 n
This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. Under construction, so far showing video [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Nice work. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. Please phone or email for details. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. Checked it over and found no spark. (Chinese) Parts lists and workshop instructions, not Magneto: No Spark - Antique Automobile Club of America 1. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing English PA. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth).
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